Body Weight

[McDaniel031151]

Why does being heavier help you lift more weight even if it is fat weight ie most powerlifters have some fat if not a lot. I asked a guy one time who benches 750 with a shirt and he told me there is more "stuff" to compress and then expand on the way up. I guess "maybe" that would be true wearing a bench shirt etc. but I wouldn't think this would be true raw. One reason I am asking is that after making a lifetime pr in the bench of 350 (hopefully this week) I want to start training to lose weight but don't won't to lose strength. I am at my heaviest ever at this point at around 234 (I am only 5' 6":mad: ) The most I have ever benched was 345 and that was about 10 years ago when I was 32 and I weighed around 210. My lifetime goal is to do 400 in the bench. If I lose weight (20-40lbs range) is this going to hinder me?

Examples:

Bench- you are lying on the bench and lower bar and press up..how does fat weight help you? I understand if you are heavier because of muscle but not the extra fat.

Squat- why would extra fat help you? It seems to me you would just be pushing up extra weight and it should be harder.

Deadlift- same thing

I hope this question makes sense and any thoughts would be appreciated.

On another note. I want to go for the PR this Sat if possible at the compound ( maybe the atmosphere will help me get it). I benched last thursday on the 19th and went up to 335 for 1 rep. Should I bench any at all this week and if so up to around what weight? Again 350 is my goal this Sat. I am having some shoulder pain, but don't think it will keep me from lifting it this weekend.:)

[Roger Crazy Wolf]

I don't think the extra body weight would help you in a lift like the bench press. From what I know, the extra body weight will help you in lifts like the C&J and the snatch, but only if you lose it before competition. I had a few training sessions with Wes Barnett and Pete Kelly some years ago and we talked about body weight. Wes and Pete were both 105 kg lifters and Wes said he would train at 108-110 kg and cut weight a few days before the comp. Pete, I think, would train at an even higher body weight. I told them that I couldn't do that and that every time I cut weight I get weak. Wes told me that the body is accustomed to the heavier weight and still acts like it has those extra 3-5 kilos and therefore you can lift more. I would attribute this to 'gym wisdom', I have not seen any studies or scientific data to back it up.

What I think happens is when guys try to lose some weight, they do it improperly and end up dropping some muscle with that fat. When you lose muscle there is a greater chance that you will be weaker. I don't think enough people keep track of their lean body mass when they are trying to lose weight. Let's say I weigh 200 pounds and I'm at 20% body fat, and let's assume this is an accurate measure. This means that I have 160 pounds of 'lean' body mass; I want to drop my body fat without losing lean body mass. Now I calculate that I can drop down to 12% body fat and still be healthy so that means if I keep my 160 pounds LBM, I will weigh 182 pounds which means I can lose 18 pounds. My realistic time line to lose this much weight would be on the order of 18-24 weeks. This is about a pound a week with the last few pounds possibly taking longer to lose. What I have seen in some cases is that a guy will weigh 275 on week one and weigh 255 8 weeks later ... this is too much weight to drop in that short of time insuring that muscle was lost as well. Now this guy can't lift as much at 255 and thinks that when he was fat he could lift more therefore fat must add to his strength.

There is more you can do with your diet to help keep the muscle as you are dropping fat, like zig-zag dieting or calorie shifting. You worked so hard for all that muscle, you need to take measures to keep it while you are trying to lose fat. I'm sure you have heard something along these lines before, fat ain't strong, strong is strong.

[Bert Sorin]

"Fat do help"

(obviously to an extent)

reasons:

1. easier to recover because the body does not eat itself as quickly
2. leverage is increased on the joints, aloowing "more to push off of"
3. same int he squat, when you get to the bottom, the torso creates a beach ball effect,and gives you somethign to push off of. When your thighs touch your belly in the bottom position, going up is easy.
4. extra padding keeps you from getting injured as easily (from external sources) like being a running back.
5. for HG throwers - the wts are heavy, you gotta have mass to counter with!!!!

Good topic. (Notice, that is why I am getting fat, uh, not because I sit at a desk 10 hours a day, uh, yeah, that's it. ;) )

[goergen1]

^^^^^ Agree with Bert. I have a lot of experience with higher bodyfat. It was not always this way. (we were actually talking about it the other day)

I remember the first time I went over 18% bodyfat. (3rd year of college) It was like a drug. I recovered twice as fast, got stronger twice as fast, everything felt easier and better. What I did not know at the time -

1. Holding a higher bodyfat will help you produce more testosterone.

2. A higher fat diet helps you produce more testosterone.

3. Higher bodyfat is good for the joints. All aches and pains went away.

4. Joint angles are better. ROM is shorter on squats and bench presses. When I was big me bench press had a 6" range of motion. (625lbs was my bench at the time and is a lot easier to move than my current 10" or so) I definitely noticed that my shoulders felt better and better as the ROM got shorter. "Rock Bottom" on the squat is not as far down anymore. Basically technique changes as bodyweight goes up.

5. It hinders the deadlift. It is harder to get into the right position as well as get a good start off the floor. That is why a lot of really big powerlifters have huge bench presses and squats bit a small deadlift by comparison. (specifically any guy who benches more than their deadlift) This is a general observation, not a law, of course.

6. I am just learning the highland games. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. It seems like Bert is correct about countering weight. I have heard this from quite a few throwers now.

If you are going to cut 20-40lbs of bodyweight. Expect to lose strength. That is 8.5% - 17% of your bodyweight. 17% is a lot to cit and not lose strength. To put it in perspective, that is going down 2 weight classes in powerlifting. I have yet to hear of anyone who has done that and maintained strength or gotten stronger.

Having cut weight myself. (though it was 30% of my body weight that I cut, which is significant. I also changed my training and was doing more MMA type conditioning, which did not help me keep strength) I can say that my strength loss was disproportionate to my weight loss. I lost a lot more strength than I thought I would.

Just some food for thought from a guy who is not lean. :D

[McDaniel031151]

I have suspected for some time now that I am a "little" fat. Well, the neighbor lady next door to me told me last night I was a "Fat Jerk":D . We got into a disagreement over our dogs getting into each others yards..her big dog tearing the side open of my little dog, in my yard, to be more specific. Right away I told her " I can lose weight, but you can't get prettier"! I thought I may have to throw down with her husband after that, but he didn't want to...he kept calling me "Ace" though:cool:

Anyway thanks for the help on my bodyweight question. I guess starting next week I will change up my training so I am not an eye sore to my nice neighbor lady:rolleyes:

PS: Now I need to look into if I am a jerk!

[Bert Sorin]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ah great story D!
Ace...ha!

[Rory]

I have to weigh in here, and I am going to be a little contrary.

I disagree with some of the principles that were stated earlier.

I think body fat is an important aspect of the results of strength, not necessarily an equation of more fat=stronger. What I mean by that is guys who get stronger tend to get a little fatter because of how the body puts on muscle. (You need a positive caloric balance to build muscle, and when that happens you tend to put on fat)


However, I don't think you necessarily need more fat to get stronger. Given a choice of whether one would rather put on fat or muscle, I think anyone would choose muscle. While some fat is definitely a good thing and necessary(see Bert and G's comments) I think your goal should be putting on muscle and hence gaining strength. You definitely do NOT need to be fat to be strong. Just look at 4x WSM and the current World Strongest Man Mariusz Pudijanowski. That dude has crushed everyone in the last four years of WSM and he cannot be more than 10 percent bodyfat.
I think (and this is just my opinion here) one of the reasons he has been so dominate is that he is able to maintain that strength AND his low bodyfat. So in this case, being fatter is definitely a disadvantage.

It also depends a lot on what you want to do. As Bert said, in HG you need some heft to counter the big weights that you are throwing. As a budding HG thrower who is pretty lean, I definitely agree with him. It would be easier to manuever with the weights if I put on 30lbs of weight. If you want to bench press more, just focus on gaining muscle.

As I said before, I would rather put on 30lbs of muscle than fat in any circumstance.

[Bert Sorin]

I agree Rory. I wish i was 260 and ripped, but as for now, I cannot do that. :) In order to gain weight and muscle, you have to take in extra calories, which does sometimes lead to more fat.

As for Marius P, he does well in the events that need speed and wind, but the pure strength events (Arnold Classic always goes to Sadrunas Savicas. (I knoe, horrible spelling) He is 405lb, and really strong. Has some fat on him, and whips everyone in the strength events. (for the last 5 years). I feel he is the strongest man on the planet. IMHO

Take care of yourself Rory!